Evil Monkey on "You Like Us, You Really Like Us"

Evil Monkey:You can relax now, "we've" won the culture wars.Jeff:Huh? Who's "we"?Evil Monkey:Ya know---SF, fantasy, horror. We've won!Jeff:Okaaaaayyyyyy. I thought we either didn't care about that or were fighting to be included at the adult table, with the grown-ups who've been having the same kinds of serious discussions being had at the kids' table all of these years, not just waiting to be subsumed into the pop culture zeitgeist?Evil Monkey:But, there are serious discussions---like in the Wall Street Journal.Jeff:Nothing against Grossman---seems like a nice guy, and Ann said she really enjoyed him on a panel at WorldCon---but he's inferring

implying

not only that Stephenie Meyer is a good writer but that there's something about her writing that we should encourage just because it sells well.Evil Monkey:A compelling argument, though, don't you think?Jeff:Let them read John LeCarre, then. He sells a ton of copies, so clearly he's filling a void for someone, too, and he's at least an extremely skilled writer.Evil Monkey:But he's not part of the culture war we won! He won years ago! Or something! Too much with the vodka this morning to really understand much of what's going on, but I'm still talking!Jeff:Just sayin'---you want examples of popular writers who can actually write as opposed to sit at a computer and type...Evil Monkey:Do you think it's all a plot? Yes, I'm still talking!Jeff:No. I think what some people do when they have a book out is, they find religion. In this case, someone has a fantasy book out, so he's expressing his allegiance to the genre religion---"I am one of you, do not be afraid, Earthlings. I will not hurt you or lay waste to your crops." It's not really about a life-long, thought-out position---it's more about "let's-try-to-put-together-something-topical" related to the fact they've genuinely been immersed in that subgenre or mode of writing for a bit---and I do think think Grossman genuinely likes fantasy. He sure as hell named-dropped enough of it in his novel. It's like meta-fan fic on one level.Evil Monkey:But the main point is: he likes us! He really likes us!Jeff:Speak for yourself. But, yes, in general he does---the sunshiny and not too difficult or too surreal or too out there parts of us---so as a tribe, genre likes him back just fine. If, on the other hand, you're crotchety old Cormac McCarthy and you've written a flawed but genuinely moving and serious SF novel, but you don't really give a damn about expressing an opinion on genre, genre doesn't give a crap about you. Or, if like Margaret Atwood, you actively diss genre while writing a genre book, the tribe dumps all over you, unless, of course, you're someone who understands they're a member of several tribes, like Ursula K. Le Guin, and then you get something more like balance. (Although, several people apparently think this is just a piece where Le Guin stomps all over Atwood for not embracing genre. I don't.)Evil Monkey:Isn't that the way it's supposed to work? Tribalism?Jeff:In a somewhat weird world, maybe.Evil Monkey:What the hell does that mean?Jeff:Well, I mean, you don't like me but I still read and appreciate your journals. And I don't like you, but you still read and appreciate my scribblings.Evil Monkey:I don't care whether you like me or not.Jeff:And I don't care whether I like you or not.Evil Monkey:Wait a minute. That sounded wrong.Jeff:The admittedly awesome Michael Chabon wins a genre prize, it's just dandy, because Chabon has already validated genre---he's stamping tribe-members' valet parking slips right and left. Murakami wins a genre prize, it's just puzzling to the tribe because Murakami has never really expressed an opinion on the subject---he's not expressed his loyalties. "We" have no way of telling if he's one of "us".Evil Monkey:What if people just dig one writer's books more over another?Jeff:Yep, that's fair enough, and Chabon truly loves all kinds of fiction, and his enthusiasm is, as they say, infectious...but I'd argue that the context in which the tribe approves or disapproves also has a lot to do with that writer's position on the subject of genre. Their oath of loyalty, so to speak. Otherwise, look suspiciously at the damn furriner.Evil Monkey:There's nothing wrong with tribes, or tribes picking sides. You're part of the tribe of curmudgeons. For example.Jeff:And you're part of a tribe of feces-flingers.Evil Monkey:And there's nothing wrong with that, either! Want some vodka?Jeff:Erm, no and no, I guess. But the point is, you're not just a feces-flinger. You're an erudite contrarian with a foul mouth on ya. You're also a member of---although most people don't know this---the professional cello players tribe. You are part of the cigar subculture. I could go on and on.Evil Monkey:Fair enough, although you left out the Tribe of Those Who Hit Others With Big Sticks.Jeff:How could I forget about that? Another case in point. The Guardian It's Not the Booker shortlist. Several people expressed disappointment that it had no genre fiction on it. Except, it does, but those authors aren't members of the tribe, so it doesn't count. Except, they are actually members of tribes we should recognize---Evil Monkey:And we all should acknowledge we belong to multiple tribes anyway.Jeff:More or less. Otherwise the filter we use on the world renders it in binary colors, and we're back to the language of defeat, in a different context.Evil Monkey:So what're your tribes?Jeff:Maybe one tip-off is I don't belong to SFWA and I don't belong to the Literary Guild, either. In fact, I don't belong to any writer organizations. I like dealing with individuals, not group minds. And I tend to like and enjoy the heck out of books that a variety of tribes have laid claim to. I just want smart and savvy and, yeah, I veer between wanting simple and wanting complex, of loving and appreciating a novel that gives me traditional pleasures and then loving and appreciating a novel that has no interest in giving me those traditional pleasures but something else just as pleasurable instead (to avoid using false oppositions like "entertainment versus literary") and there's nothing pretentious or pulpish about that. What I do not want are listings of writers of varying talent, from crap to excellent, passed off as evidence of a winning of the culture wars that would mean having won a war against ourselves.Evil Monkey:You'll have to excuse me, but I didn't hear any of that over my chugging of the vodka. War against ourselves?Jeff:Yes, because genre fiction isn't all one thing. It's not all serious literature or all trad-plot entertainment, if you want to make a pointless distinction (see Le Guin's review for why that's stupid). So if you say we've won the culture wars: in what sense? What part of genre won the culture wars? And should we be unambiguously happy about that fact, if true?Evil Monkey:It means Stand on Zanzibar is cool again! It means Joanna Russ and Samuel Delany are "in". It means Tiptree and Cordwainer Smith are our new pop culture heroes. Theodore Sturgeon is gonna be on t-shirts! Heck, Ursula K. Le Guin is a hipster now.Jeff:...I think I need that vodka after all....Evil Monkey:Sure! A toast: Gawd bless, the tribes. Every single bleedin' one of them. They're the glue that binds together the spines of...the spines of...Jeff:Shut up. But, yes, gawd bless 'em, and let's just hope they don't come a'huntin' in these parts and take away my genre passport or my literary visa, because I need both of those things, and I love everybody. Just, you know, not in huge groups or nothing. Those group hugs are awful.Evil Monkey:You're sure loving that vodka now.